Eliminate The Transit Mall
So there’s a proposal to get rid of the buses, and eliminate the Walnut Street transit mall.� That space would then be replaced by street level retail (shopping), and green space to enhance the downtown neighborhood…..
So the question is, what the heck are they waiting on?� The only part of downtown that I don’t like to spend time around is that transit mall.� I hate all the buses, and I hate getting approached by creepy folks.� For some reason, the only place this has ever happened to me is at that transit mall.
More green space, more retail, no buses and fewer creeps?� Sounds like a winner to me!! What do you think?� Should they follow through with this plan?
Make your case below…..
Filed under: changes?
Beth Says:
Well, I’m all for it, but where will the busses go? No matter where they are, there will be a rough element. Let’s put the busses away from where we want to hang out. How about a bus transit mall where all the busses meet, off from the area where all the people are. I suppose then people will complain that their bus stops much further from their work and they will want it closer.
Posted on August 8th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Mark H Says:
Get those buses out of that area and bring in the good shopping!
they can always make a new area for buses to go, they should have done that a long time ago.
Posted on August 8th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Should Des Moines eliminate the Walnut Street Transit Mall? Says:
[...] asks whether the City of Des Moines should eliminate the Walnut St. Transit Mall and return that area to street-level [...]
Posted on August 10th, 2007 at 6:18 am
Richard Christie Says:
To our anti-bus leadership and citizens:
The bus is a very important method of transportation to, from and through the downtown area by thousands of our residents. The system is available to all at an affordable price. It also enables those who are unable to drive to be able to commute along with there fellow citizens.
Moving the transfer point elsewhere will not eliminate the panhandlers and loiterers from the area. Retail in the Walnut corridor is dead not because of the transit mall but because the vast majority of the people who live and work there do not shop its stores and restaurants. Sure the Hub restaurants are busy for two to three hours daily but that is not enough for most businesses to prosper. Many off-Walnut restaurants and stores have closed.
The resurrection of downtown as a complete shopping district will not happen by closing the Walnut Street Bus Mall. Dart users are customers too; they are citizens and human beings who deserve easy access to the skywalk system and employment opportunities downtown.
Perhaps if you knew more about how the bus system works, you would understand why our “forefathers” built the Mall.
The Dart system operates seven or so routes to serve its citizens. Each route operates on a two hour “figure 8″ loop through the Walnut Transit mall. During transfer times riders can change from one route to another to complete their trip. Sometime, due to coming downtown on a non-transfer time, the rider must wait for their next bus. Many other riders must normally wait for their bus to leave downtown after shopping or leaving work. This means that there are almost always people waiting on Walnut Street.
Perhaps this is what bothers people, I’m sorry. It is not the fault of bus riders that there are folks who loiter in the area. There are just as many people driving cars that would make you uncomfortable if you had to spend time on the street close to them. Get a life and realize that you don’t own the world and the myopic view that everything should fit into the way you would like for life to be. Leave the Transit Mall alone.
The space required for bus-riding citizens to park downtown would require more ramps, lots and shuttles just to get them to work. There would be more air pollution and competition for and waste of gasoline without mass transit systems. The streets would become nearly impassable during rush hour.
The Transit Mall could and should be improved. Some of those things would be video monitoring of the area and signage that the shelters are for bus riders only and that loitering is not permitted. A deputized officer could monitor activities in the area and call for assistance if needed. Let’s work with what we have and improve it.
Should there be a move to actually close the Walnut Street Mall without an equal or better solution, there would be legal challenges based on the ADA to prevent it from happening.
This effort is just one of the methods to improve property tax revenue downtown - not to serve its citizens real needs.
The city is planning on eliminating the Walnut Street Transit Mall. Make your views heard at a public hearing on September 18th at the Des Moines Central Public Library. A morning session is being held from 11:00 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. and an afternoon session from 4:00 p.m. -7:00 p.m. Your input is requested by the city, county and Downtown Community Alliance.
BTW - Minneapolis has areas restricted to buses on its Nicollet Mall. Isn’t it a “world-class city”?
Posted on August 12th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Josh Says:
Richard, good take. I would say that part of upgrading and improving the bus terminal would be to move it. And I don’t know how anyone could make the argument that the area would be better as a bus terminal than as a greenspace/street level retail district…
That’s why they have public forums and debates about these things though!
Posted on August 12th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Richard Christie Says:
There are about 44 buses using the Walnut Transit Mall each hour during rush hour and half that or less during non-peak hours and Saturdays. There is no bus service on Sundays and holidays. There is little evening service. To me, this seems to leave a lot of “space” for other foot traffic and shopping in the area. My opinion is that the greater use of the area is still for transit. Putting the transfer station elsewhere would only make it less convenient for its users.
Blame the buses for the loss of retail downtown - no. Blame customer preferences for malls, lack of easy daytime parking, skywalks, employer-sponsored cafeterias, short lunch “hours” and the Skywalk system - yes.
Evidence - business closures in the Skywalk system itself and stores with hours limited to weekdays only with service ending at or before 5 p.m.
The central business district is generally a dinosaur in our community and can only be survived by strong, competent merchants with established customer bases like Josephs Jewelers, Walgreen’s and a few other stores in the Hub area in the Skywalk.
It’s ok to dream your dreams but retail downtown will, in my opinion, be service driven for those merchants tough enough to continue business there and not by a simplistic “build it and they will come” attitude.
There is plenty of property available for retail development near downtown, both east and west and in well-planned residential developments. As downtown develops, there is little need to duplicate those things that are available in our existing well-planned major malls, discount stores, strip centers and grocery stores; after all, it seems as though our new downtowners all have cars.
Keep the buses on Walnut.
Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 6:29 am
Josh Says:
Do you think 10,000 people living downtown would change the retail side of things at all?
Since the push began to get people moving downtown look at all the little shops, and now grocery stores, and for more street level retail stuff.
Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 11:30 am
Richard Christie Says:
Yes it would and there are many blocks of retail opportunity outside of Walnut Street. Why is there a big push about Walnut when new street-level stores could be built with apartments or condos above at or above skywalk level. The new construction would generate more jobs than renovation and the structures would be purpose-built instead of conversions. Think Mulberry and Cherry Streets. The opportunity to succeed will bring retail all on its own, it does not need to be subsidised or developed by our leadership.
Ask the planners if they have ever had a majority stake in a retail store, not a mall development and notice that they never had that experience. I have been in retail for over 35 years, 19 for myself and the balance for several other firms including major department stores and in-line mall stores. Building the store does not make it successful, hard planning does. The viability of the new ventures has yet to be tested by time.
P.S. Many new downtowners will find that the bus as it is configured now allows easy access to 4 malls, Hy Vee, Walmart and many other shopping venues with an average round-trip (excluding shopping time) of less than one hour for $2.50. It is the biggest bargain in DM.
Thanks for the discussion!
Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 8:23 pm
Sophie Says:
I like the bus, but richard makes it seem like if we dont have the transit mall right where it is, no bus will be able to come downtown and pick people up.
I think I am in the middle, Get rid of the mall, have a bus come all over downtown and pick people up and regular stops.
Posted on August 13th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Josh Says:
Richard, do you own a shop at the Walnut Mall?
Posted on August 14th, 2007 at 12:26 am
Richard Christie Says:
No, I work near there and commute from Windsor Heights via bus 3. I have always been a supporter of the transit system as it is an efficient way to move people without dedicating a parking space downtown for each commuter.
I also am in favor of eliminating non-ramp parking lots from Downtown by using outlying lots with commuters taking the bus from much greater distances than shuttling or walking from lots to work. Existing lot space should be used for green spaces, parks or more efficient use of land by building more housing and businesses there.
I would like to see all kinds of urban development in the central city, especially that which would reduce any need to have most automobile traffic. The automobile will eventually incapacitate central-city travel if high population densities are achieved.
Light rail systems should be considered for our largest suburbs. Bus routes should be extended in terms of size and hours of service. Commercial growth, including retail, should be encouraged even more downtown. I would also like to see the architectural integration of more fast food operations downtown and more diverse recreational opportunities like theaters, roller-blade and skate board parks that would serve urban workers and residents alike. Specialty store like shoe stores, jewelers, gift shops, candy stores, clothiers, computer stores and many others need large population densities or traffic densities like malls or strip centers in order to grow.
Medical offices, clinics and schools are also areas needing more development downtown.
I would like to see more affordable and even low-income housing downtown and a central-city subscriber paid wi-fi system.
To accomplish these things we need even more than 10,000 people living downtown. We need to foster the goal of making downtown the recreational, shopping and business center of the community. People should want to stay downtown evenings instead of zipping home immediately after work. We need economic and educational diversity to foster this growth that we say we want, more bars and restaurants just won’t do.
I am not necessarily opposed to the elimination of the Walnut Transit Mall. I am against closing it without its replacement being better for downtown residents, commuters and visitors alike.
Posted on August 14th, 2007 at 5:09 am